The Florida Slide: How a Five-Year-Old Insurer Is Beating Everyone at Their Own Game: QAV America #66

QAV America 66

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Cameron: Welcome back to QAV America, Tony. This is episode 66, I think. We’re recording this on the 18th of August, 2026, timestamped. What’s, uh, what’s going on in, uh, the American investing market, Tony, from what you’ve been reading with your, your daily scanning of the, uh, Wall Street Journal?

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, I mean, it,

Cameron: So-

Tony Kynaston: a couple of things. The– still an interesting place, I think, over there from an investing point of view. Oil’s above ninety dollars a barrel again. bond yields are up, which is generally bad for corporate America. Um, and it’s also– Yields are up, which means it costs more to borrow or to issue bonds, but it also means that, um, the risk premium in the share market’s shrinking.

So as the yields improve on bonds, more people will buy them a risk-free investment compared to [00:01:00] buy– putting money in the share market. so a lot of things are going on on that front, but, um, VIX, which is the measure of volatility, is, is reading at its, you know, close to its all-time low. So the US investor is pretty complacent, though bond yields are going up, uh, retail invest– or retail, are soft, so people aren’t putting their hands in their wallets as much as they were in the past.

So it’s just a very interesting situation over there at the moment

Cameron: Yeah. The, the market hit an all-time high in the last week, uh, topping 7,800 for the first time on an intra-day basis. Dropped a little bit before it closed. Uh, and but as you say, retail sales fell 0.6% in July. Analysts had expected a 0.2% rise after a 0.2% rise in June, but it fell and consumer sentiment [00:02:00] also soured.

University of Michigan index dropping to 51.0 in August from 55.2 in July. But the market continues to boom. Oil prices back up $82 a barrel for WTI crude, Brent around $87 per barrel as the whole Iran situation is yet to be resolved. But it’ll be resolved quickly after Donald Trump takes ownership of the Strait of Hormuz.

He’s gonna call it the Strait of Trump, I believe. And, uh, he’s pretty confident that that’s what it’s gonna take. It’s all gonna be. As, as long as the, um, the mutiny on the USS Abraham Lincoln, uh, doesn’t get any worse.

Tony Kynaston: Read about

Cameron: You heard about– haven’t heard? Oh my God

Tony Kynaston: I did hear he was threatening to bomb Oman, one of our, one of his allies, so I thought that was quite strange

Cameron: Gonna bomb the shit out of Oman. Yeah, if they, uh, don’t, I don’t know, give him what he wants. [00:03:00] No, they’ve got this situation. So the USS Abraham Lincoln, which has been the ship they’ve had, uh, blocking any ships apparently getting through the Strait of Hormuz, uh, uh, “I’m gonna block your block,” um, has been there, I think eight or nine months.

Uh, they’ve been, they’ve been, uh, out to sea for eight or nine months. And the problem they had is they, where they were located outside of the strait, um, they were supposed to be getting refueled, resupplied by the US base in Bahrain, which is traditionally where ships in that, US ships in that region get resupplied.

But Iran bombed the, uh, US base in Bahrain, and so they couldn’t get resupplied from there. And I think there was a couple of places that they. close by where they in theory could have got [00:04:00] supplied. I think Oman was one of them, but again, they were within striking range of Iran’s missiles. So they ended up, uh, asking if they could use a UK base in Diego Garcia, an island, which is quite a bit of ways away.

And, uh, Keir Starmer, when he was the prime minister, said no, and then Trump put the thumbscrews on him, and he said yes. But it’s like a long, long way away, uh, from where the ship is. So they are getting supplied, but they’re few and far between. Anyway, apparently the crew of the ship haven’t had any R&R for eight months.

Their mental health has declined. They’re mutinous. The ship is in a terrible state. I’ve seen photos posted, various forums, you know, sailors are sending photos to family, and the place is like, there’s mold in the toilets, and They’ve stopped cleaning. They’re, they’re refusing to work. Um, it’s all going [00:05:00] very, very badly.

So it’s being replaced. They, I think the USS Washington they’re sending to replace the Lincoln. But, um, it’s a bad state of affairs, and, uh, Trump’s going, “No, it’s great. It’s great. They’re doing fine. Everything’s fantastic.” But even his own

Tony Kynaston: gonna ask that.

Cameron: crew are

Tony Kynaston: the ship, why don’t you swap another one in and rotate it?

Cameron: Well, because they don’t have that many ships, and, uh, I think they’ve only got, like,

Tony Kynaston: Navy.

Cameron: 10 carriers,

Tony Kynaston: Yeah.

Cameron: operating, and they’re all kind of busy right now.

Tony Kynaston: Right

Cameron: Um, yeah, so there’s problems. Uh, I’ve got this New York Times in front of me. “Admiral Brad Cooper, head of US Central Command, acknowledged the difficulty of the carrier’s nearly nine-month deployment, but said mental health issues were lower than on other vessels.”

So apparently it’s

Tony Kynaston: has he?

Cameron: apparently it’s not going well.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, look at.

Cameron: They’ve got 5,000 crew on this ship, 5,000 [00:06:00] sailors on this ship, and they’ve been stuck with each other for nearly nine months.

Tony Kynaston: Andrea

Cameron: And, um, “The admiral’s comments differed from those of his boss, President Trump, who on Friday dismissed concerns about difficult conditions reported aboard the ship.

Asked whether he was concerned about the crew’s mental health and whether he thought the deployment had gone on too long, the president said, ‘No, not nearly long enough.'” So there you go.

Tony Kynaston: well now a little.

Cameron: Yeah, when he served time. Yeah

Tony Kynaston: Oh dear, that’s terrible. Uh,

Cameron: I’ve got one, uh, news item to talk about before I get into my Pulled Pork, but I know you’ve got something to talk about. BBDO, Banco Bradesco, that I talked about a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, had to sell it today. Had a significant drop over the last couple of weeks, but couple of days after we talked about it, its report came out.

I think we talked about it on the 3rd of August. On the 5th of August, their, um, [00:07:00] latest numbers came out and, uh, they had growth. Profit was up, but the charge for the loans going bad also went up 22%

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: than the profit went up. The profit went up 16.2%. Charge for the bad loans went up 22.6%. Loans more than 90 days overdue went from 4.2 to 4.3%.

Loans the bank has moved into the higher risk bucket went from 4.9% to 5.5%. The money set aside against the overdue loans fell from 152% to 161% and then a hundred and

s- well, it fell from 161% three months earlier and 178% a year ago. And it wasn’t just them that fell either. The share price for Brazilian financial stocks all fell during the first couple of weeks of August for some reason. Anyway, so whatever it was, they became a three-point sell line. I feel bad selling a stock two weeks [00:08:00] after buying it, but rules is rules, and they’re there for a reason, so I did and replaced them with the company I’ll be talking about, uh, later on

Tony Kynaston: Do we need to put a rule in place like we have in Australia where if, if there’s gonna be an announcement soon, we don’t buy?

Cameron: Well, how soon is soon? Because in Australia it’s every six months. Over there it’s every three months. So if we put a hold every three months, that reduces our buying window by f- months a year.

Tony Kynaston: Yep, true.

Cameron: know.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah.

Cameron: Have to see how it goes

Tony Kynaston: Yep. Okay

Cameron: You wanted to, uh, talk about a couple of notes before I get into my Pulled Pork?

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. Well, the thing that caught my eye was what’s happening at Berkshire Hathaway and what they’re investing in. So, you know, like, like, uh, a, uh, a lot of other companies, they’ve done their quarterly reporting and, uh, their 13F filing, as it’s known as, and it, it’s sort of starting to give a bit of a picture of what Greg Abel [00:09:00] is doing with the, the cash pile at Berkshire Hathaway.

Um, and what I read was, uh, a, a couple of things. So he, he is kind of doing a bit of a, you know, Warren Buffett trade on some of the banks, so particularly Bank of America. Uh, and they– he sold down a lot of Bank of America shares and I think the reason for it is that Buffett originally bought Bank of America back in 2011 when it traded at a 62% discount to book value, uh, but now it’s trading at a 64% premium to book value. And, uh, so he’s cut, uh, the holdings in Bank of America, also in Chubb and Aon, um, cut, uh, their stakes there. has increased his stake in Alphabet, and they now own thirty-seven billion dollars worth of Alphabet, and I guess that’s a signal that they think there’s value there and, uh, it’s a. They see Google as a value play. Um, and I guess [00:10:00] they would compare that against the, the AI peers as well. So that’s, I guess, a tick for, for Alphabet. But I think the biggest thing that caught my eye, ’cause, I mean, these trades go on all the time with Berkshire Hathaway, they’re managing a big portfolio. But the thing that caught my eye was that, um, are really going heavy into US home builders or into US retail housing in general.

So, um, they already own a big real estate, uh, agency. they own modular home constructors. Uh, they’ve now bought into, um, US home builders like Lennar, L-E-N-N-A-R, and, um, I guess you could also count GEICO with its home insurance a part of that sort of end-to-end ownership of the US housing industry or housing market. And I’m– the question I’ve got is, are they actually. It’s quite possible they’re seeing or they’re getting insights into the [00:11:00] real estate market via the GEICO house insurance, and that might be telling them something about the, um, the market, uh, that, uh, is not as obvious to outside investors. But anyway, they’re going all in on US housing, which I thought was interesting.

Cameron: Well, that kind of ties into my deep dive today, which is on a housing insurance business. Interesting. I’m just looking at Google share price though. Um, so it’s come off a little bit. It peaked around about 400 bucks in the middle of May. It’s down to about 342 today. I’m assuming they bought in a lot earlier though.

Uh, would’ve been, what, how, how far back does this reporting go?

Tony Kynaston: a quarter, so it could have been any time in the last three and a half months. Yeah

Cameron: Yeah, okay Right. So they might have picked it up. It was as low as 318 at one point, so they might have picked it up then. It’s up, [00:12:00] you know, a good 10% since then. And, you know, in the last, uh, year it’s gone from 200 to, as I said, 400, but then ended back 351, so. Doesn’t turn up on my value buy list, but, uh, you know, we’re playing in a different pond too

Tony Kynaston: yeah, that’s right. They’ve got to deploy large amounts of cash. And I think, um, I know– I remember d- I remember hearing, uh, Charlie being interviewed before, um, he passed obviously, and he was talking about one of the things they missed was Google the first time around because not so much from a value point of view, um, he wasn’t really commenting on the share price.

He was talking about the fact that it cost them nothing to make ads. Um, so they were, you know, costing him a cent to make an ad and charging a dollar for, uh, someone to buy it. So it was a great business to be in.

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynaston: though, you’re right though. I’ve, I’ve noticed a lot more, uh, some of the sites I use regularly, not in the AI world, but just other sites, they now will do a capture or check to make sure you’re not a bot.

So they’re, are starting to push back, I guess, on being scraped, uh, for AI use. Hmm

Cameron: Hmm. So it’s an interesting space and maybe, uh, my point was gonna be maybe Berkshire, um, mm, obviously have a fairly high level of confidence that Google is gonna weather the storm of AI.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, I,

Cameron: Uh, well

Tony Kynaston: it’s, it’s the, a new iteration in search, isn’t it? I mean, uh, just plain Google search [00:16:00] is down. AI search using Gemini is up, but it’s probably the same revenue for Google. more costly given data center costs and things, but it, it’s maybe even giving them more revenue than they had in the past as it concentrates the Gemini

Cameron: Yeah. It will depend on if and how they can monetize the AI, uh, recommendation model like they did the online ad model. Well, speaking of AI, the company I’m gonna talk about today claims that AI is one of their proprietary value, uh, propositions. Whether or not that is true remains to be seen. Uh, so the company is Slide Insurance Holdings.

Ticker code is SLDE, listed on the Nasdaq. Only been listed on the Nasdaq since June of last year. Um, they are not Brazilian or Ecuadorian or Argentinian, sadly. [00:17:00] Um, so I had to sell BBDO. But they’re based in Florida, which is kind of the Latin America of, uh, the United States really, isn’t it? I think large percentage of their population are

Tony Kynaston: It’s the Queensland of the

Cameron: percentage of the, a large percentage of the Floridian population, uh, from Latin America or of Latin American heritage from the little bit of time I’ve spent in

Tony Kynaston: bit.

Cameron: Miami and Florida

Tony Kynaston: to play golf and, um, it reminded me so much of growing up in Southeast Queensland.

Cameron: Yeah. Certainly the temperature does, the climate does. yeah

Tony Kynaston: courses, uh, the architecture. Yeah,

Cameron: Mm-hmm. Mm. Less flamingos in Queensland, but there. I love, I love going to Florida. I’ve been there a few times. It’s always fun.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah

Cameron: Um, so what do they do? Well, basically a house insurer, and they’ve only been around five and a half years. But very, very [00:18:00] interesting story behind these guys.

V- a lot, a lot of questions that have been asked and are continuing to be asked about their genesis. Um, but they’re, they’re doing well. So, um, one of the questions I had was why they’re showing up very high on our buy list. They weren’t at the top this week, but they were number four, I think, on my buy list this week.

They were the first thing that I could buy. Their first policy was written in March 2022, and as I said, they listed on the NASDAQ last year. They’ve got about a half a million policies. They throw off about a billion dollars of a year of operating cash flow with a market cap of two and a half billion dollars.

Last year, they ran a combined ratio of 52.1%. Do you know what that means, Tony?

Tony Kynaston: Means they’re making money hand over fist. That’s, that’s their margin, basically

Cameron: [00:19:00] So for people like me that don’t know anything about how insurance works, combined ratio is the number that tells you whether or not they’re ma- any good at actually insuring stuff to be insured. Take every dollar of premium they keep after paying the reinsurers, then take off what they paid out in claims, take off what it costs to run the business, and what’s left is the underwriting profit.

Now, if your combined ratio is 100%, you’re basically spending everything that you brought in. Uh, you break even on the insurance. You can still make money by investing the float, as we know from Warren Buffett. But Slide spent 52 cents of every dollar and kept 48. Now, to put that in perspective, the whole US homeowners insurance industry last year ran at about 87% combined ratio.

So, uh, 52% is a lot better than 87%. Florida [00:20:00] home insurers ran at about 83%, which was good for Florida because there’ve been no hurricanes hitting the mainland for the last couple of years there, and that’s obviously the big thing that causes payouts for home insurers, is hurricane, uh, damage, hurricane impacts.

So in a year when everyone else did well, 83%, Slide did about 30 points better than everybody else. So the obvious question is, if they’re doing such a great job, why are they so cheap and why are they on our buy list? Before we get into that, a little bit more information on these guys. They’re based in Tampa, Florida, but incorporated in Joe Biden’s old running ground, Delaware.

Tony Kynaston: Which is not unusual.

Cameron: uh,

Tony Kynaston: I think most

Cameron: the Biden benefit. Ah

Tony Kynaston: in the US use Delaware.

Cameron: Of course they do.

Tony Kynaston: Hmm

Cameron: Because there’s a reason Joe Biden was the senator from Delaware for 40 [00:21:00] years. By their own description, they’re a technology-enabled insurance company using artificial intelligence and big data to optimize and streamline every part of the insurance process, which is pretty much what every insurance company says right now.

Uh, they’ve got all the buzzwords.

Tony Kynaston: Uh, Savrick?

Cameron: you an AI company? No, but we are using AI.

Tony Kynaston: Mm.

Cameron: best thing What they actually do is sell house insurance to Floridians,

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: outside of Florida, but they’re mostly Florida-based, and buy an enormous amount of reinsurance.

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: IPO’d on the 17th of June, uh, 2025 at $17, closed the first day around $20.25, up 19%.

They floated about 24 million shares, so the float raised about $408 million. Obviously, not all of that money goes to the company. When you do an IPO, the shares [00:22:00] come from two places. There’s brand new shares that the company creates, that cash goes into the business. Then there’s also the shares that, uh, people own that they wanna, uh, exit.

Slide sold about 16.7 million, um, shares, uh, newly created shares, raised about 283 million in the IPO, and the rest was people that already, um, owned shares, went into their pocket, about 7.3 million shares, 125 million went into the hands of existing shareholders. So about 70 cents on the dollar went into the business, about 30 cents went to insiders who were cashing out.

The share price rose to $23.30 on day three, the 20th of June, 2025, and then fell, uh, for the next, a few months. Slid from $23 down to $13.36 [00:23:00] in, at the end of August 2025, and has basically been building its way up since then. And it kind of begs the question, if your, if you name your business Slide, what do you expect to happen to your share price when you IPO?

But, uh,

Tony Kynaston: It’s– Look, to

Cameron: if I was

Tony Kynaston: A lot of IPOs do that, including SpaceX, so it’s not unusual, not unusual to see an IPO take a while to reestablish its feet

Cameron: Sure.

Tony Kynaston: Well, I,

Cameron: But they currently

Tony Kynaston: AI why, why was it called Slide? ‘Cause it like, that’s– not a, it’s not a typical Barry and Stan name, is it? Like, you know, I’m gonna let

Cameron: No.

Tony Kynaston: slide this year.

It’s

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynaston: yeah.

Cameron: What answer did you get? I didn’t ask that question

Tony Kynaston: to represent a smooth, frictionless, and modern experience. That’s pretty bland really, isn’t it?

Cameron: Hmm, lubricant. They should have just called it lubricant. Yeah. Uh, well, it’s trading at around about 22 bucks at the moment, so it’s, you know, back up to [00:24:00] almost where it was at the peak. So that’s not bad within a y- year.

Tony Kynaston: of good results too

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynaston: As you, as you say, no, no hurricanes in Florida means good combined expense ratios for insurers

Cameron: The next thing to know is that in September 2025, just after it had bottomed out, a short seller named Manatee Research put out a report that basically said the business had a whole bunch of problems. And then they immediately got hit with a number of law firms announcing investigations because America, um, that’s what happens.

And then unfortunately for the short seller, the share price started going back up. But, um, I’ll get into that a little bit later on ’cause there’s a whole interesting story about Manatee Research or lack thereof, which is why it’s interesting. But anyway, a little bit [00:25:00] more about the business before we get into that dirty laundry stuff.

So the origin story is kind of fascinating. So the business was founded in April 2021 by a couple, Bruce and Shannon Lucas, husband and wife. Then they raised a bunch of money after they started the business. Then between February 2022 and February 2023, seven Florida property insurers went broke and Slide managed to swoop in and pick up a lot of their business.

So the Lucases started the business, spent roughly a y- next year or so raising $106 million in capital, and then were able to pick up a lot of these businesses that were going defunct, almost like they knew it was gonna happen. And in fact, the first one sounds like they maybe did have some sort of knowledge about something.[00:26:00]

So in January of twen- so they, as I said, they set up the business in April 2021. January 2022 The Florida regulator signed off on a new insurance carrier for Slide. Sits under- it sits underneath the business. They raised a bunch of capital. You gotta have capital if you wanna be a insurance company. So the regulator said, “Yes, you can launch a new insurance business.”

And so by the start of February 2022, Slide, uh, was 10 months old, has 100 million bucks, regulatory approval, but doesn’t have one single customer. Now, watch what happens over the next fortnight. On the 15th of February 2022, a Florida insurer called St. John’s stops writing new business. Two days later, the ratings agency pulls St.

John’s rating, basically the death certificate for an insurer. Without a [00:27:00] rating, mortgage lenders won’t accept your policies. The same day, Slide Insurance Company gets formally incorporated in Florida. On the 18th of February, the next day, Slide agrees to take over St. John’s book 24th of February, they get its certificate of authority.

It can now legally write insurance. On the 25th of February, a court orders St. John’s into liquidation. 1st of March, 12:01 in the morning, 147,000 policies and about $400 million of premiums transfer over from St. John’s to Slide. So the actual insurance carrier was six days old. They went from zero to 147,000 policies overnight Now, whether or not that was lucky timing or not is something that Manatee Research started asking questions about, and I’ll explain why [00:28:00] in a few minutes.

Uh, but some of the other insurance companies, big insurance companies in Florida immediately started complaining about this whole deal because they said none of them ever even got an opportunity to bid on the St. John’s customer base. Some suggested there was something of a sweetheart deal going on.

More on that in a minute. Then in February 2023, they had a different takeover with a company called United Property and Casualty, UPC. In this case, they bought the renewal rights, the data, and the intellectual property from UPC, about 91,000 homeowner policies, 272 million of annual premiums, and a dataset covering over a trillion dollars of insured value.

UPC canceled 72,000 policies on the 1st of February 2023, and Slide issued replacements on the same date. [00:29:00] UPC keeps every claim with a date of loss on or before the 31st of January, and then UPC is ordered into liquidation on the 27th of February, straight after the deal is signed. So Slide got the customers and the contracts, but none of the histories or the losses associated with them, sort of a clean takeover with none of the messiness of the history.

They did similar sorts of deals over the next couple of years. Now, the Lucases have a backstory, or, or Bruce Lucas is. D- does anyway. So in 2012, he founded another company called Heritage Insurance, Florida Homeowners Insurer. He was the chairman and chief investment officer from August 2012, and CEO from May 2014, the same month that Heritage listed.

And then he [00:30:00] left on the 30th of November 2020, although he stayed on as a paid consultant through 2021 and positioned this as a planned retirement. But then a year later, November 2021, still a paid consultant to Heritage, Heritage takes about a 6% stake in Slide, which he had just started, at a $250 million valuation. Then Heritage handed over a dormant Rhode Island insurer, a Florida agency, and the historical claims and underwriting data to Slide.

So they are– they do have this Rhode Island insurer. They are doing a bit of insurance outside of Florida, but Florida’s still like 99% of it. Actually, it’s dropped from 99% down to about 96% in the last quarter. Still mostly Florida-based. Um, Heritage in return got, uh, some equity, but [00:31:00] also a perpetual free license to use Slide’s software.

So the brand new startup is licensing software to an insurance company that’s been around for 10 years. The Heritage chief executive at the time called it a win-win with our former colleague. Slide today is worth $2.56 billion. Heritage is worth about a billion dollars. So there was some sort of transfer of assets and intellectual property that went on between Lucas’s old company and his new company while he was still a consultant to the old company, et cetera, et cetera.

I’m not ex-

Tony Kynaston: wasn’t there a sale of Heritage? That’s why Lucas exited. I think he pocketed a f- um, a bit of coin from the sale and then hung around to

Cameron: A sale? Aren’t there. Well, I didn’t know this

Tony Kynaston: floated or sold? I [00:32:00] think that was the reason why he le- in my notes where he exited. I’ll have a look

Cameron: I’ve read that it was floated in 2014 And then he left in 2020 but stayed on as a consultant. And I think it’s still listed

Tony Kynaston: Oh no, I

Cameron: But there may have been

Tony Kynaston: the chairman and CEO of Heritage until 2020. Doesn’t say it was sold. You’re right, sorry.

Cameron: Hmm. Okay. Um, so there’s a little bit of that and, and some– when I get, I’ll get into some of the more of the Manatee research stuff where a lot of this stuff comes back. But before I get into that, a little bit of their business model. Um, so, you know, you buy a three-bedroom house in Florida, um, you have a mortgage.

Bank needs you to be insured. Slide will charge you about $3,600 a year. That’s sort of their average residential premium, down from about $3,964 a year [00:33:00] earlier. Florida, by the way, is the most expensive state in the country for house insurance, but it varies a lot depending on what county you’re in. So some counties run as low as 2,100, some are as high as 7,800.

It depends, I guess, on chances of getting hit by a hurricane or floods

Tony Kynaston: you going to explain why that’s important in, uh, Slide’s success?

Cameron: Uh, possibly

Tony Kynaston: I don’t want to step on what you’re gonna say, but, um, traditionally insurers would use that county data, so a higher level of data to write their– their policies, whereas Slide takes it down to household level based on where it is, uh, the construction used, the– what type of roof it has, which way it’s facing, that kind of stuff to be able to price at the house level as opposed to the county level

Cameron: Part of their AI big data software [00:34:00] strategy, yeah

Tony Kynaston: Yeah

Cameron: Which they may or may not own, whereas we’ll find out as the story goes on. So they take that money up front, and then they immediately spend about a quarter of it buying reinsurance because if a Category 4 hurricane hits, um, a claim on a half a million dollar houses would run into billions of dollars and their entire shareholder equity, as I said, is about $1.19 billion.

So

there, there’s three businesses stacked on top of each other. One is the collection machine, brings in the policy premiums. They have about 509,075 policies as of the 30th of June, up 46% year on year, by the way. So good growth, but there are extenuating circumstances. The second part of the business, and this is the actual skill as I understand it, is the reinsurance buying operation.

I know that we’ve, we’ve talked about reinsurance in other [00:35:00] episodes. We’ve got some reinsurance companies in our portfolios. But in case people are listening to this for the first time and don’t know what reinsurance is, reinsurance is insurance for insurance companies. Um, you, you basically off, off sell, on sell some of your insurance liability to other companies and it’s.

They have this thing that I didn’t really understand. They have what they call a, a tower, an insurance tower. So you have layers of reinsurance stacked on top of each other. So if a ca- hurricane does come and hit, it’s a bit like, um, your, um, what do you call it when you have car insurance? You pay the first whack yourself,

Tony Kynaston: excess

Cameron: excess.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah.

Cameron: you. So if a cur- hurricane does hit a house and Slide insures the house, Slide pays the first slice of the damage bill and then above that layer after layer of [00:36:00] reinsurers pick up progressively bigger losses. The slice that Slide eats itself is called the retention layer. That’s capped at 166.8 million on a first storm and 150 million if a second one hits in the same season.

Their own framing on this is that if the first event retention is no more than a quarter of what they expect to earn before tax in a year, they can survive it. So for perspective, they made $444 million of net profit last year so a bad storm would hurt, but it wouldn’t kill them. If there are four storms in a year, statistically improbable, but could happen, it would be bad news.

But they’ve got stacks of reinsurance on top of reinsurance that sort of mitigates the risk, uh, for the damage that, and the exposure that they have on it. I won’t get into the numbers of it all [00:37:00] anymore because it’s all very confusing and not exactly rele- to us. But the point being that

Tony Kynaston: relevant.

Cameron: how

Tony Kynaston: on. It’s, it’s very relevant.

Cameron: Okay

Tony Kynaston: most relevant thing you’ve s- you’ve said.

Cameron: Okay

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. No, it’s, uh, reinsurance is critical in this case, so, and the reason why it’s critical is it’s priced and it’s, at the moment, it’s priced, um, for a low number of But if they have a wipeout year, the reinsurance premiums go up dramatically. and one of the reasons why I think this company is cheap is that people are saying, “Hang on, this is a good year for in Florida.” If there’s a bad year, then the reinsurance costs come, becomes so high that, you know, you’re priced out of the market. All those great expense ratios we spoke about before become at, you know, at best for all the other insurance companies in Florida who’ve been through the bad cycles already, um, or at worse, out of the market.

They, they just can’t afford to offer policies with the reinsurance costs they [00:38:00] have to pay

Cameron: But this is their business. I mean, we’re, we’re assuming that, yeah, they’re, they know what they’re doing, rightly or wrongly

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, but like, uh, uh, it l- as I said, I think, I think that they’re doing it very well, and there’s no reason to think that they’re not. But it could be that, um, if there’s a catastrophe year in Florida, that the reinsurance goes up and their, a lot of their advantage gets traded away and they’re back in the pack with the other insurance companies

Cameron: Right. So when I say it’s not relevant, it’s, you know, it’s not gonna show up in a QAV analysis of this. We’re just looking at how much money they’re making. Yeah. Well, we look, you know, we, we’re retrospective. We’re not looking into the future. Well, we do a couple of things, but, you know. Yeah.

Tony Kynaston: right. Yep

Cameron: And, uh, uh, it’s all very complicated, and they, they claim that they’re very, very good at this.

Whether or not they are, time will tell

Tony Kynaston: Well, they definitely have an, an advantage, I think, at being able to price insurance at the household level. That [00:39:00] is a tech advantage they have, for sure

Cameron: Is it an advantage though? Uh, is, are, are they doing it any better or any differently to anyone else?

Tony Kynaston: Well, yeah, I, I think they are. I think if you, you know, if you’re pricing it, i-if you’re. I-it’s a bit, what’s a, what’s a good example? If you’re a s- chain of supermarkets like a Woolworths in Australia, you can only have one price across the state, you can have different prices per state, um, you’re gonna have good outlets which are selling well because, you know, they’re in a poor area, and you’re gonna have bad outlets which are selling, aren’t selling so well because the price is wrong for that particular area.

Um, it’s the same thing within the state. If you’re pricing at a county level, you’ll have some people who can get a better deal from someone who can price at the household level. You may lose up to half the houses in that state ’cause you’re pass, you’re pricing at the average rather than at the individual level. it’s a big deal, I think.

Cameron: What I’m saying is I’m not sure that they have any, uh, long-term unique [00:40:00] ability to price at the house level rather than the county level

Tony Kynaston: Oh, I think they do. I don’t know if the other insurance

Cameron: Okay

Tony Kynaston: it or, or maybe it’s gonna be a big investment cost for them to allow it

Cameron: Maybe, but we’ll get into that.

Tony Kynaston: Okay

Cameron: So, um, just finishing their business model. On top of the reinsurance, they offer us a thing called a catastrophe bond or a cat bond. So apparently, uh, on top of reinsurance, one of the things that these insurers do is package up bonds to sell to investors to cover some of their exposure.

If they did get hit, you get a good rate on that bond, apparently. But if a hurricane hits, you lose your money. So,

Tony Kynaston: Is that how it

Cameron: yeah. As, as I understand it, yeah. Yeah. We will pay you a fat premium on your bond unless we need to use the money, and then, sorry, we take that money and you don’t get any of it. So it’s, you know, they’re [00:41:00] taking that to the capital markets instead of just reinsurance companies covering some of the losses.

So, uh, in 2024, three hurricanes did hit, Debby, Helene, and Milton. Cost Slide $89.89, $89.9 million pre-tax. But the last, uh, couple of years they haven’t had any hit, so it’s been a good couple of years to be a home insurer in Florida. The other part of the, their business which is interesting is Citizens, the state-run insurer.

Did you read that much about them?

Tony Kynaston: I didn’t, no. I’ve heard of

Cameron: So

Tony Kynaston: I haven’t read about it in this context

Cameron: Right. So, um, with those storms in 2024, as I said, it cost Slide roughly $90 million. Citizens, which is the state-run insurer, uh, took a billion dollars, uh, losses or, or outlays on those same three [00:42:00] storms. That’s Slide’s estimate, by the way, not an audited Citizens number. That’s their estimate of what it costs Citizens.

So they’re saying, “We did a much better job at covering our exposure than the state-run insurer does.” Same weather, same state, but more than 10 times the damage. And, uh, so the tower is the business model. The third thing they do is invest the float. They’re sitting on $1.24 billion of cash that they can touch, and they’ve got a- another, uh, $839 million invested.

And the, the way that they invest is deliberately dull. Um, it’s all triple B minus or better grade bonds. No shares, no property, nothing exotic. And apparently the reason for that is if you cop a hurricane bill, you have 48 hours notice and you need to be out there doing stuff, so the money can’t be tied up in anything you can’t sell in a hurry.

That book earned them $42.3 million [00:43:00] and a half, up from 28.8 million in the last year because they’ve got a lot more to invest, uh, than they did a year ago. But getting back to the Citizens state, state insurer, really interesting aspect of the business in Florida is they w- they’ve been picking up customers from Citizens.

So Citizens is the Florida state-run insurer of last resort. It was created 2002. And to give you some perspective of the numbers, in September 2023, Citizens had roughly 1.4 million policies. Um, they have about. That was, that was September 2023, 1.4. As of July 2026, they have about 278,000 policies. So they’re down 80%.

[00:44:00] Most of it went into private carriers like Slide.

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: And the reason for this is a 2022 law that the Lucases may or may not have suspected was coming when they set up the business. And the law states that if a private insurer offers you comparable cover within 20% of your Citizens premium, you are no longer eligible to stay with Citizens.

You have to take a private carrier.

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: Doesn’t have to be Slide, but you have to go to one of the official admitted carriers in the program if their rates are within 20% of the state’s rate, state-run insurer’s rate. So Citizens’ rates control the size of the opportunity for the private [00:45:00] carriers like Slide to pick up Citizens’ business effectively, right?

So if Citizens rates go down, it can mean a decline in the number of customers that are sliding into Slide. I think that’s where they came up with the name from, actually. You s- you’re gonna slide, slide on over into our business. Um, and they were picking up a lot of business from Citizens, but one of the reasons I think the projections for the next year are low and the price is where it is, is because they’re not gonna be picking up as many customers, is the current, um, assumption, as well as potential hurricane losses and that kind of thing folds in.

But let me get into the Manatee Research. So September, 2025, as I mentioned, this outfit called Manatee Research published a bear report which disclosed a short position. Now, the interesting thing about Manatee Research is when you go to their website, it’s, it’s a bit like the Berkshire Hathaway website.[00:46:00]

It looks like it was made in 1990, and, uh, it’s one page. There’s nothing on it. No about, know nothing about who’s behind this. The first ever thing they ever published was the Slide report, and they’ve done one more since then, which hasn’t gone well either. That’s it. So we don’t know who they are, what their background is, what their knowledge is, um, just the fact that they wrote one on Slide and then another one on a company called Amprius Technologies in May 20 this year, which is kind of interesting.

Um, they’re writing a very damning report which started four, not lawsuits, but investigations by law firms into Slide when this report came out. But they shorted them when the Slide price was around $12.50, and the price is now $22. So [00:47:00] it hasn’t gone well for the, their shorts, at least this stage, at this stage.

Tony Kynaston: How long did they

Cameron: I don’t think the Amp-

Tony Kynaston: Do you know? Did it, did the price dip after the research came out?

Cameron: No, the price went up after the research came out. So yeah. And, uh, I don’t know if they still hold the shorts. I don’t know what the situation is there, but, um, yeah. Well, we don’t know who the people are and they, I don’t think they’ve published anything about their holdings, so very hard to tell.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. Well,

Cameron: But

Tony Kynaston: know who the people are. You can Google Manatee Research and see who’s behind it.

Cameron: Can you?

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm. I’m, I’m doing it

Cameron: So who’s behind it? I don’t know

Tony Kynaston: Uh, someone who used to work at Hindenburg.

Cameron: Who’s another shorting firm, right?

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. name for a shorting company.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. Uh, “Founded by a former senior researcher from the prominent activist short-selling firm, Hindenburg [00:48:00] Research.” Um, goes on to say, uh, Gemini goes on to say that, uh, on Reddit are mixed about their credibility. market watchers view their sourcing on legal and regulatory histo- histories as thorough, whereas others suggest short sellers exaggerate routine business risks or mi- misinterpret foreign corporate relationships for financial gain.”

Cameron: Funny, when I Google Manatee Research, I get, “Manatee Research uses advanced biological tracking, neurobiology, and acoustic monitoring to protect these vulnerable marine mammals from environmental crises and human interactions.”

Tony Kynaston: Maybe Gemini knows I’m a stock investor.

Cameron: Don’t know what it thinks I am. Interested in manatees apparently. Yeah

Tony Kynaston: cow. What kind of porn are you looking at?

Cameron: You don’t wanna know, Tony. You don’t wanna know. Anywho, don’t judge. Love is love, Tony.

Tony Kynaston: No, [00:49:00] you’re

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Takes all types

Tony Kynaston: Yeah.

Cameron: So, um,

Tony Kynaston: I

Cameron: w- anyway, back to the Mani-

Tony Kynaston: porn, which is why Gemini’s giving me that, that

Cameron: This is

Tony Kynaston: Mm.

Cameron: Buffett and Munger naked in a hot tub. Um, you know, you can probably get AI to make that now if you really want it.

Tony Kynaston: This, this is really sliding.

Cameron: So one of the things that Manatee Research claimed in their report was that when St. John’s collapsed, three of its senior people turned up at Slide. Jesse Schalk, who became Slide’s president and chief financial officer, Jonathan Mertz, senior vice president of operations, and Andrew Lambert, the senior vice president of claims. Now, Manatee said that the Florida regulator wrote to Slide in March 2024 [00:50:00] demanding their removal, and that Slide then quietly took their names, um, out of their website, but that they stayed employed at the company.

Now, that is relevant because there’s a law in Florida that says if you’re part of an insurance company that went out of business, you can’t be part of the management of another insurance company.

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm

Cameron: Second, Manatee made allegations regarding claims handling for Slide. They said Slide closed only 38.6% of its reported homeowner claims with a payment in 2024 against a peer average of 53.7%, a 15-point gap.

They cited Florida state data, 1,938 civil remedy notices filed between January 23rd and September 25th, about 90% of them alleging delay and 60% alleging outright denial. A [00:51:00] civil remedy notice is a pre-suit bad faith complaint you lodge with the state before you’re allowed to sue. It’s an accusation, not a finding.

So they said, you know, they, their combined ratio wasn’t because they’re really good at

Tony Kynaston: Uh-huh.

Cameron: underwriting, it’s because they just weren’t paying claims. The third allegation was about the technology. The co-founder and chief data officer, Hassan Sawah, ex-Amazon and ex-Meta, quietly disappeared off the website after December ’23.

Didn’t appear anywhere in the IPO prospectus. But then a third party vendor called PinPoint Predictive publicly took credit for seven points of loss ratio improvement at Slide in their own case study. So Manatee’s, one of their claims was that a large percentage of Slide’s avoided losses and entire net income that year came from an outside [00:52:00] technology vendor.

So it wasn’t proprietary AI or software that Slide had as a competitive advantage. It was third party stuff that anyone could get, and their whole business case, uh, that they had this proprietary technology may not be all it seems to be. Just saying this is alleged. Don’t know that anyone has proven anything, but this is what Manatee’s report said.

Fourth, they claimed concentration. About 83% of policies in force came from failed insurers or the state. 69% of the insured values on houses built before 2001, so before Florida tightened the building code after Hurricane Andrew, and 35% of it sits in the four highest risk hurricane counties. So, uh, you know, a lot of this stuff actually turned out to be correct.[00:53:00]

Um, what happened after this report came out is within a week, four American plaintiff law firms anno- announced investigations. As far as I can tell, no class action was ever actually filed. There’s nothing in their 10-K or 10-Q reports about it. But five weeks after the report came out, the Florida regulator fined Slide $250,000 for claims handling.

But to be fair, they also charged another company called Kin Insurance exactly the same amount of money for similar conduct. So, um, maybe it just wasn’t Slide specific. And it was also a $250,000 fine against $444 million of profits. So good f- good, good business if you can get it

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. I mean, look, it’s, um, I think it’s good to go through the contra. Um, but given the share price is up, given there’s been no class action, given there’s, um, no, well, there’s a fine, but not a big [00:54:00] fine, um, kind of questioning whether it actually was substantive

Cameron: Well, f- two days after the fine, Jesse Schalk had, Schalk, one of the St. John’s guys, announced he was leaving five weeks after the report came out. Maybe related, maybe not related, but, uh, there you go. That’s what the Manatee Research thing won.

Tony Kynaston: short, short sellers say that they’ve uncovered problems in companies, but we don’t know what the.

Cameron: That’s their job.

Tony Kynaston: That’s their job, yeah. What’s the

Cameron: It’s their business model.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah

Cameron: Yeah. Mm. Um, the Tampa Bay Times has actually been chasing the story about the collapse of St. John’s and the transfer of its business to Slide since about 2024, and as well as a lot of other failed Florida insurers that then landed senior jobs at other Florida carriers.

There was a bunch of them. It was a bit messy. It’s apparently, it’s an ongoing story, [00:55:00] but, um, anyway, that’s just a bit of background to the Florida home insurer market. Little bit messy, little bit interesting

Tony Kynaston: I think, uh, a couple of other things I wanna just toss in there at this stage. One is that a lot of the big companies have exited the Florida market, like, uh, State Insurance, Farmers Insurance have both, um, left the market, and that, that plays into Slide’s hands because they pick up the mark- instant market share when the– a big insurer leaves. You have to say why the big insurer’s leaving, um, and that’s for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is risk. Um, but it’s also, you know, it’s also I think the, the market. I mean, if you’re a small insurance company in a market like that, you may have– you may not last. I mean, it’s. They were, they were closing down, um, following those three big hurricanes. So, um, if, if you’re a, if you’re an up-and-coming insurer, you’ve just listed, you can pick up market share, you can buy assets out of– distressed assets out of a liquidated company, and [00:56:00] potentially pick up some good staff from that– pick the, pick the best staff,

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynaston: probably a good thing for shareholders.

Now, can’t comment on whether that was against the law that they became office holders, whether they should’ve been or not. I don’t know the detail. you said, you said someone left, so maybe they, they shouldn’t have gone there. But, but I can see how it happens in a, in a normal commercial environment without, um, having to go to a short-selling thesis or a class action thesis about what’s gone on

Cameron: Indeed. Well, a little bit about the ownership. You’ll like this. As far as I can tell, Bruce Lucas owns about 45% of the company. His wife sh- uh, owns another 2.5%. Directors and officers as a group own about 50.8%. This is as of the 20th of April. They may have sold a little bit since then, but they still probably own a massive chunk, so we do like a lot of inside ownership.

So why is it, uh, cheap? Well, you know, I [00:57:00] think we’ve talked about a number of the reasons, but their own guidance says the trailing number is probably the peak. They’ve guided 455 to 470 million of profit for the year against $555 million trailing. So management is saying next year’s not gonna be as good as last year was.

First half, they’ve already done 274 million, so the second half is guided to be somewhere between 181 and 196 million. This is against 281 million last year, so it’s down about a third. And there hasn’t been a hurricane. So two reasons for the fall. Their new reinsurance tower only started on the 1st of June, so the June quarter wore one month of it, and the next two wear three months each.

And guidance has to assume a normal storm season,

Tony Kynaston: Right.

Cameron: which they didn’t have last [00:58:00] year

Tony Kynaston: Right

Cameron: So I think their insurance, reinsurance tower costs went up. They have to say, “We’re probably gonna get hit by a storm. It’s probably gonna cost us money.” And the top line is slowing, too. Premium guidance was up 3 to 9% after 35% last year.

So we’re gonna have less money coming in, uh, more expenses, less profit. The growth engine is also closing. The Citizens pipeline has gone from, as I said, their meta policy Citizens has, has gone from 1.4 million to 278. 80% of that pool has already been drained. Slide’s approvals from the regulator halved this year from 266,000 down to 131.

And the reasons are legal, not really commercial. A Citizens customer only has to leave if the private insurer’s [00:59:00] within 20% of the Citizens price, and Citizen just cut its rates. So it’s gonna leave less opportunity for Slide to slide in. Less sliding, more organic growth or, you know, have to go out and do it the hard way.

Um, and so that leaves the float and their ability to make money out of the float and, um, you know, that’s a, that’s a separate line item. But cash flow, you know, the amount of money coming in determines the amount of float that you have to invest, so they have less money potentially coming in to, uh, invest in other things.

Three, the reinsur- they had reinsurance relief. Uh, it’s the biggest cost after claims and, um, prices, uh, actually fell for reinsurance recently, but you only [01:00:00] get that once, so they’re expecting next year to be flat reinsurance pricing. So they’re not gonna be able to make more profit from that. And then the last one is the catastrophe risk.

Uh, so 2024 they had three hurricanes. 2025, none of them made landfall. But, uh, you know, the, the expectation is there has to, statistically there probably has to be a, a very bad year coming up, and that could be very costly. So they’re having to factor that in. So I think that’s kind of the summary of Indigo Guide, exactly

Tony Kynaston: I think, I think there was one last thing I wanted to cover, Cam, and, and another tailwind for the company. So December 2022, were some litigation reforms in Florida. the bill was called Senate Bill 2A or SB2A for short, it had four, I guess, um, [01:01:00] four things or four tranches to the bill which is going to aid, uh, insurance companies.

And, before, before this law came in, prior to the reforms, Florida accounted for roughly 79% of all homeowner insurance lawsuits in the US despite the fact that 8% of the country’s total homeowners, um, had claims across the US based in Florida. uh, it was disproportionately litigious in Florida up until 2022. That bill, SB2A, uh, stopped, um, a lot of the insurance or the, the legal business that was going on against insurance companies. So the first way it did that was to eliminate what’s called one-way attorney fees. And, uh, what that meant was that, um, prior to the law, if, uh, a policy- policyholder sued their insurance carrier over a claims dispute and won by even a single dollar, the insurer had to pay 100% of the [01:02:00] policyholder’s, legal fees.

But if the insurer won, they still had to cover their own legal bills. So it was a, a one-way insurance, um, uh. Sorry, one-way, uh, fee coverage that’s now changed. So, um, the plaintiff loses, uh. Well, first of all, the plaintiffs must pay for their own attorneys, um, and, uh, normal sort of litigation rules apply. Uh, there was a thing called assignment of benefits that used to operate. So, there was a, a. Well, what, what happened with unscrupulous, uh, suppliers of, uh, repairs to insurance claimed houses, so people like, uh, roofing contractors, plumbers, um, whatever. They’d arrive at a, a home post-storm and require the homeowner to sign over their insurance rights before any emergency repairs began, and then they would bill the, uh, claims to the insurance company themselves by inflating the, the damage estimates.

So, uh, [01:03:00] law now says you cannot assign, uh, your post-loss insurance benefits to the contractor. You have to keep them yourself and make the claim yourself if you’re the policyholder. the, um. And before the legislation, the, a homeowner had up to two years to file, to file the initial claim following a severe weather event, and, uh, that’s been, uh, uh, changed to one year from the date of loss.

So, that helps. And then there was also the fourth, uh, part of this law which, uh, stops what’s called bad faith lawsuits before a, a claim is settled. So, um, the– under the SB 2A, the claimant must first secure a final adverse judicial judgment against the insurer before they can then go on to follow up with, uh, bad faith action. So, um, in the past, they had to– they were being run concurrently and causing insurance companies extra costs. So those, um, those [01:04:00] changes to law have helped insurers in Florida. The fact that Farmers in the state have left the, uh, state has, um, or State Farm insurance has left the state is, uh, is a good thing as well. Um, and the fact that, you know, probably because they were ins-insiders, they, they knew that there were companies, companies going bankrupt in Florida and that they could pick up the assets and policies cheaply, kinda gave them a running start. Um,

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynaston: notwithstanding all the risks you’ve spoken about before and the guidance being flat to negative, all that kind of stuff’s in there to put it on our value buy list.

But, um, yeah, it’s, it’s– think there’s a fair bit to like about the company really, notwithstanding the risks that come with a major catastrophe that could, could still strike Florida and, uh, and mean lots of claims and lots of reinsurance price rises too, which is probably, important to the profit of this company going forward

Cameron: And the good thing about QAV as a methodology is I [01:05:00] don’t have to worry about,

Tony Kynaston: We don’t

Cameron: predicting hurricanes in Florida. Um, not my, not my job

Tony Kynaston: No, that’s right

Cameron: So, um, running out of time here. I’ve gotta go to kung fu. I’m just gonna wrap up the numbers. So, um, let me run through the scoring for these guys. Uh, their price was not less than our IV1. IV1 was, uh, $21.06, and the price at the time was $21.93, so slightly above it. Couldn’t score it, but price was less than IV2.

IV2 comes in at $39.51, so it’s quite a bit below that. The price was not less than book value. Uh, the price, however. No, also was not less than book value plus 30. I got book value at $10.23, so couldn’t get scored for either of those. Price to operating cash flow was 2.47. [01:06:00] Very, very low. Um, so could score it for that.

It’s less than our cutoff of seven. Uh, price was not less. Uh, sorry, PE was not less than yield. PE ratio is 5.34, and, uh, the yield is 0.32. Yield was not higher than the benchmark rate either. Did have positive book growth. Um, des- does not have a new three-point upturn, although, uh, phew. You know, the new three-point upturn timing for American companies, I’m still not quite sure about.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, we use six monthly in Australia, don’t we? Yeah

Cameron: Yeah. When I look at this one, it sort of seems to have breached the three-point, uh, buy line roundabout May, June, just as the numbers would’ve been signed off. Um, you [01:07:00] know, I probably would score it for that, you know, but I don’t need to fudge it because it’s already scoring very, very high.

Tony Kynaston: Right

Cameron: Um, does score for Piotroski F-score.

It had a- an F score of seven, above our threshold of three, of four and a half, sorry. Um, quality rank was, uh, Stockopedia quality rank was 75, above our threshold of 60. Did score it for that. Stock rank on Stockopedia is 97, above our threshold of 90, so I scored it for that. Growth over PE was not greater than 1.5.

I couldn’t score it for that. All in all, it had a QAV quality score of 67% and a QAV score of 0.27, and as I said, was about number four, I think, on my buy list this week. So, um, I added it to replace BBDO, [01:08:00] um, and, uh, we’ll see how it goes

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. Good.

Cameron: Hopefully it does not sli- hope it slides up,

Tony Kynaston: Right.

Cameron: not down.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, I mean,

Cameron: Can you

Tony Kynaston: they’re guiding based on something happening, if it doesn’t happen, then the share price should go up, but we’ll see. Again, we don’t

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynaston: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: Yeah. Well, that’s a wrap, TK.

Tony Kynaston: Thank you

Cameron: Thank you. Happy hunting everybody

Tony Kynaston: All right, bye