Edited Copy of QAV U.S 5
[00:00:00]  Welcome to QAV America. This is episode five, I think, and we’re recording this on the 13th of May, Australian time. My name is Cameron Reilly. With me as always, my co-host who is on bad wifi in country New South Wales today. Tony Kynaston. are you? TK  – Bateman’s Bay is still in New South Wales, isn’t it?
TK: It is feels, with this wifi though, it feels like it’s in Africa, country news, Zimbabwe or something, and, and I shouldn’t be disrespectful to Zimbabwe’s wifi. It’s probably better than Bateman’s Bay’s.
Cameron: you don’t take your starlink console with you when you go on the road.
TK: No, this should be too big. I could probably strap it to the roof of the car, but.
Cameron: Alright, well let’s get into the show for today. So the big news overnight is that the Trump administration and the Chinese administration had their meetings about the tariff and the tariffs and the [00:01:00] trade war, and they’ve agreed to some sort of 90 day pause. The US are dropping their tariffs on China from the ones that remain anyway, down from 145% down to 30.
I think China’s dropped theirs from 125 down to 10. are still to be worked out. There will be more negotiations and if you ask me, it could have just started with negotiations instead of all of the posturing to begin with. But we’re back to where we are and the US market overnight spiked Australian market spiked as well, but.
You know that from my perspective, Tony, it’s still sort of a chaotic period. I mean, the market jumps up, it jumps down based on the announcement of the day. But as we’ve talked about a number of times on our shows over the last few months since all of this tariff trade, war nonsense started, [00:02:00] it’s really hard for anyone running a business to predict is gonna be happening in the economy.
A month from now, let alone a year or five years from now. It’s really hard for anyone to do any long-term business planning right now and investing and borrowing money and, and investing for the long term. I, I can’t really understand how anyone can be making those sorts of bets at this stage. It really seems to be a day by day proposition.
TK: I, I agree with you. It’s a lot of companies in the US have have stopped forecasting their earnings for that very reason. But in tariffs with China is for 90 days. But that doesn’t mean that in, in three months time, things aren’t gonna change again. So they probably will. So it is hard. I, I guess, want to caution you on, on the word bets. I don’t think as invested, we’re making bets. We’re trying to make calculated decisions on which companies to buy at the right price. [00:03:00] So pull you up there. having said all that, I’m still comfortable buying shares. I know we are buying, I’m buying in Australia, but I’d be buying com.
I’d be comfortable in the US as well. but yeah, we’ve gotta, we’ve gotta be more alert to movements and the share price that might trigger our three point trend line buys or sells than we normally would be. ’cause if we, there is a lot of volatility and a lot of announcements driving the market at the moment.
Cameron: Yeah, when I said investment, I wasn’t talking about stock investors. I was talking about businesses. Borrowing money to invest in factories or stores or staff or infrastructure, really hard for them to know what’s gonna be happening in the market, down the track. I mean, you say it’s paused for 90 days, but who knows, it could be unpaused tomorrow.
There’s really no logical reason or rationale going on here. It’s just seems to be [00:04:00] cra crazy idea of the day. And, political theater of the day. I, I don’t see how anyone can make any sort of rational decisions, but as you right, full rightly say, way that we invest is based on what we know today, what is real today, and we just take it day by day based on.
What’s happening without trying to forecast or predict, and we let the rules of the QAV system govern what we do. Speaking of which, I wanna talk about some of the challenges that I’ve had. I am gonna do a bit of a deep dive on a stock on this episode, but over the last couple of days, I did a buy list for our US portfolio.
On the weekend and then I started looking at some of the stocks and it was, more difficult I found to find something to invest in, even after I’d gone through the numbers and done [00:05:00] the buy list. You know, for people that are new to QAV, once we’ve run our checklist, we tend to just, we, we stack rank them based on the QAV score.
We tend to go from the top and work our way down. And I’ll start with the. Stock that has the highest QAV. Score, and then I’ll usually do a little bit of digging into the stock. I’ll look at its latest news releases. I’ll do a bit of a new search on it just to make sure there’s not some major announcement that I need to be aware of that isn’t showing up in the numbers.
But 99 times out of a hundred. There’s nothing there that’s gonna surprise me, that’s gonna stop me from buying the stock. That’s what I’m dealing in Australia doing, dealing in the US. I find it a lot more, touch and go. So, for example, there was a stock called IVR Invest Go came up on our buy list, looked pretty good.
when [00:06:00] I, dug into it a little bit, it turns out that it’s a real estate investment trust. And know, we haven’t real estate investment trusts in Australia, and I know that we’ve talked about them over the years and whether or not they fit into our system, we. Struggle sometimes with one of our main metrics, price to operate in cash flow.
Because of the nature of these businesses, these guys invest in and finance and manage both residential and commercial mortgage backed securities and other mortgage related assets. But the prop calf metric worried me. They had a pretty good prop calf score price to operating cash flow score. But then I dug into it a little bit more and saw that their business model is one in which they pay back 90% of their profit as a dividend instead of reinvesting it back into the business.
Anyway, just the, the nature of the [00:07:00] real estate investment trust and the question marks around the propcaf metric. Gave me caution on this one, Tony and I decided against it. Remind me how you think about value investing in real estate investment trusts and QAV.
TK: Well, the same way I think about other companies. I, I, it doesn’t bother me that it’s a real estate investment company or a real in estate trust that you’re talking about, very rarely, I don’t think they ever, ever came on, come on, onto our buy list in Australia, because basically, as you say. The profits are paid out as dividends and therefore, you know, depending on the dividend yield, usually dividend yields from properties are sort of three or 4%. Therefore, they’re usually trading on a prop calf of 50 of 20 times. You know, which, which wouldn’t surprise me. And therefore they never get down to the levels of sort of below seven times that we, we look for.
So. interesting [00:08:00] you say that you’ve got one that’s on your list that meets our, our metrics for prop cap for price to operate in cash flow. Because generally the yields in, in both commercial and retail real estate are such that you, and, and that fact that the profits are paid out means that they trade on the inverse of the yield means that the prop caps are quite high. So, but, but yeah, the fact that it’s paying out 90% of its profits doesn’t worry me. These companies usually operate in one of two ways. They’ve set up a trust and a fund and raised capital, and then invested it, and then they have harvested the yield and paid it out as dividends. And if they have another opportunity, they’ll set up another trust and, and buy another. Office building, for example, and go again. Or if they have another opportunity to opportunity, they may raise capital through the current trust. So even though they’re only putting, say 10% of their profits back into the company, they still can grow, but it tends to be [00:09:00] lumpy. so that’s, I guess, one issue. But yeah, the fact that there’s one appearing on the list is intriguing.
Cameron: Yeah, so the prop calf that I calculated for them was a three, so anyway, there you go. I, they, they are on our buy list, but when I looked at it, I, I decided. I wasn’t comfortable with that, so I moved on and I looked at the next company, which was XYF X Financial.
Now this is a Chinese finance company
X financial is a China based company, principally engaged in the pro provision of technology driven personal finance services. The company’s products primarily include Card Loan and xo, ying Preferred Loan. The company is also engaged in the provision of investment opportunities to investors through its wealth management platform.
[00:10:00] Xo, ying Wealth Management, or Well and Good based in Shenzhen Province in China. And then, but I, again, when I was sort of looking into it and I was talking to Chachi PT about it, it says at three times earnings, net cash and double digit revenue growth. XYF is statistically cheap. You’re being paid to underwrite Beijing’s next move and the Chinese consumer’s solvency.
If you can live with that political risk and you’re willing to accept zero governance leverage. It’s a deep value bet with buyback support. I, I said, what do you mean zero governance leverage? says the founder still owns the steering wheel. Justin Tang, holding vehicles control greater than 50% of the vote with a straight majority.
He can elect every director and ran through any shareholder resolution. No dual class optics. Just brew control. But then it says, your. NYSE ticker is a Cayman shell [00:11:00] whose only asset is a contract with a Chinese operating company. Chinese law doesn’t recognize you. Cayman law gives you slim recourse. Try suing in Shenzhen when things go pear shaped.
Good luck as so. It’s basically a shell company. That’s floated on the New York Stock Exchange and the assets are controlled by another company that the Shell Company has a contract with. It says bottom line. You can analyze the numbers, but you can’t influence the outcome. You ride shotgun and hope the driver keeps it on the road.
If you don’t like where it’s headed, you jump out and sell. That’s zero governance leverage. And I don’t know. I just got, I got the shivers, man. I was like, it’s, it’s a, it’s a different ball do you feel about,
TK: I like this one.
Cameron: You do,
TK: Yeah, I love it. Well, because I, I, first of all, a Cayman Shell, I’m, I’m learning a little bit about, but, as I understand it, American companies have difficulty setting up co-op operations in China and owning them as American companies. So [00:12:00] they have to do some kind of. Either joint venture ownership or use something like a an offshore trust to set up the company. So the Cayman shell side of things doesn’t worry me, but without knowing much about the legal status of either the Cayman Shell or the Chinese operating company it, look, I’m not in the business of launching legal actions against companies if. If the owner wants to go a different way, I’ll just sell the shares. So it doesn’t, it, I like the fact as an owner founder with over 50% holding, that’s great as far as I can tell. yes, he may decide to buy a corporate jet or a luxury yacht and I might not like that and I’ll sell the shares, but he. You know, be the next WeChat or the next Jack Ma. So I don’t have a problem with that. From that side of things, the, the numbers look fine and look great. Um, I would’ve thought providing [00:13:00] digital financial loans or whatever he is doing in China has gotta be a growth market. So it’s picking all my boxes can it might have an unusual structure allowing it to list in the US but operate in China.
But that’s I think, the way things have to happen in those cases.
Cameron: Interesting. Yeah, I, I guess in my mind, I still have a certain amount of. Comfort in knowing that people who are running a business let’s say in Australia or, or even if they’re based in the us. You know, there’s a certain level of oversight. There’s a certain amount of, reputational overhead that goes along with doing things.
You wanna do the right thing. You don’t want to get banned from being a director of a company, et cetera, et cetera. The people always get to do the right thing. We’ve, we’ve just recently introduced like a governance red flag for stocks in our Australian buy list. If they. Slip up on the governance side of things, we decide we don’t wanna take the [00:14:00] risk in investing in the companies.
Then I see something like this that just seems like it’s a fly by night operation. I don’t wanna give that impression, but the structure is such that the the, company closed up shop and disappeared overnight, be much anyone could do about it. I don’t know. It just gives me the heebie-jeebies.
TK: I do know from experience in other areas that if a US company wants to invest offshore, so say for example, it’s a fund management company in the US raising capital, but they’re gonna invest in Australia. They do use those Cayman, they’re called limited partnerships as a way of doing it. So they still have some control over what’s happening in a, in Australia, even though there’s an Australian company actually, um, executing the operations day to day.
Cameron: Okay, to know. Well, I moved on from that. I passed on that last night. Then I looked at a company called Enerflex Limited. The ticket code is [00:15:00] EFXT. Reading into that, and I found out that the CEO suddenly resigned in March. I. And they’re still looking for a replacement CEO. surely you’re gonna agree with me that that’s a red flag.
TK: Yeah, I think that probably is about, this company was trying to find out why the. You know, done limited research since you flagged you were gonna talk about this, but, I couldn’t find anything about the reason why the CEO left and he left. It sounded like he left with a notice, so that does sound strange.
Cameron: So that is for, for new listeners, that is one of our red flags, a sudden resignation by a CEO or a CFO. It’s one of what I call trouble at the mill uhoh. There’s trouble at the mill. I’m getting out before the chickens come home to roost. Might be nothing, but it might be something.
So, or, or the, or auditors suddenly resign. It’s another thing I don’t like to see.
TK: an independent.
Cameron: Or an independent director? Yes. Thank you. ended up settling on a company called [00:16:00] Enel Chile. ENIC is the ticket code. They’re very, very large electricity provider in Chile.
But before I get into that, I thought I should just do an update our US dummy portfolio since we started it back in September, 2023. It’s currently up 52. 2% per annum versus the s and p 500, up 31%. And the, this year to date so starting from January, we’re down nearly 19% the s and p is down a little bit more than half a percent year to date.
So we were up sort of around a hundred percent around about the time of the inauguration or the election I think. And but it’s come back quite a lot, but still up 52%, not [00:17:00] bad for 18 months. I’m quite happy with that.
Got any comments on anything US related before I get into looking at this Chilean
TK: No, I don’t. I, I’ve been interested to to watch the tariff negotiations, I think as everyone has, because we do have some shipping companies in the portfolio, but they seem to be doing okay though they, you know, there’s. Stock sitting on box because of tariff uncertainty, that might get cleared.
Now there’s 90 day pause. But I think, I think that’s very interesting and that’s, that’s kind sometimes par of the course for a deep value investment. People don’t want to invest in shipping companies because they’re not sure what’s happening with the cargoes, but if the underlying company’s still good, they’ll ride through. Any short term problems and then, people will jump on the bandwagon after that. But if we buy them now, we’re buying them cheap.
Cameron: And you know, the, the, one of the things that I like about [00:18:00] QAV is apart from getting the heebie-jeebies, as I said earlier, I tend not to get myself too caught, caught up in trying to predict gonna happen in the future. Just look at the numbers and look at how well the business is run and see if we can get it at a discount to its intrinsic valuation.
And everything checks out, then. Off we go. And it’s a little bit like that with this company, this electricity company in Chile has. You know, there are, there are some challenges around the market, both for them domestically and also in terms of their relationship with the US and debt and the exchange rate and lots of different things.
But I was reading through it last night and you know, came to the conclusion it’s not really my business to work out whether or not they’re gonna be able to navigate all of these challenges. look at the numbers as they are today and how well the businesses seems to be run. Based on the financials, the fundamentals, make a decision [00:19:00] based off of that.
So according to their website, we are the most important electricity holding company in Chile. They say nl. So congratulations on declaring yourself that they are part of a much larger international operation called nl, and that’s ENEL NL SPA. They’re one of the world’s largest electricity companies originally out of Italy.
They’re Italy’s National Electric Electricity Board, originally founded in when the Italians decided to unify nearly all of the electricity generation. Today the parent companies in 28 countries across five continents energy with a managed capacity of 86.4 [00:20:00] gigawatts. For perspective, Australia’s entire grid has a total installed capacity of about 65 gigawatts.
The UK is about a hundred gigawatts, so these guys produce a lot of electricity. The parent company, NL is the 59th largest company in the world by revenue and the second largest electricity utility company in the world by revenue. After the state Grid Corporation of China, they have about 69 million comp car customers around the world.
But the Chilean division, which was floated off on the New York Stock Exchange in 2016 to attract international investors so they could invest in more renewable energy projects within Chile. It’s nl, Chile sa, a majority owned by NL SPA. They own about 65% of it. The [00:21:00] Chilean firms main revenue streams are generation and distribution.
About 70% of their revenue comes from generation and about 30% for distribution. this out though in their documentation, they say their purpose is to build the future through sustainable power. Now that’s sort of something that I guess you would expect most electricity companies to say these days.
That’s sort of the politically correct thing to say. But then you break down this Chilean companies actual electricity generation. In 2024, 78% its generative capacity was renewables. 78% was wind, solar, hydro, or battery. That [00:22:00] blew my mind as of as by comparison, I think as of 2023, Australia’s entire national electricity mix was still only about 35 to maybe 38% renewables, mostly solar and wind.
So these folks in Chile are doing. that. So why are their renewables so high? Well, apparently Chile, the government has been pushing massive decarbonization program. They’re phasing out coal. They have a strong hydro base, excellent solar solar conditions in the at Karma and. NL Group globally is one of the biggest renewable investors now, I don’t think they mine a lot of coal in Chile, so they don’t have sort of that installed base.
That we do in Australia [00:23:00] for coal, for electricity production. I don’t think they have a lot of oil in Chile either. It’s sort of not clean slate, but they have a lot of runway for ramping up big renewables projects, which they have been doing over the last decade or so. And if you compare that to.
US utilities. the biggest US renewables owner is a company called Next Era Energy. They’re about 45 to 50%, but most of the energy companies in the US are still very fossil fuel heavy. They’re down around 10%. I think the one that Berkshire owns Pacific Corp is about 30%. Xcel energy is about 30 to 35%.
So there, there you go. The Chilean grid. Is very renewables heavy, which surprised me to learn that, but very [00:24:00] impressive. So a few other things about Chile and the energy market demand is projected to increase by 41% in the next 10 years. The population of Chile, by the way, is about 19 million.
And the Chilean economy, which is one of the, sort of the risk factors, I guess for any business operating in Chile, that it’s very. Mining centric as is Australia’s in their case, it’s primarily Copper makes up, which is probably good if you’re in the electricity business. I guess. Copper makes up about 50% of Chile’s exports, and I read 20% of Chilean GDP, and 60% of exports.
out of copper. It’s also a, a big lithium miner. Second globally only to Australia, thanks to the at Karma Salt Flats. Escondida is the [00:25:00] largest copper mine in the world and produces about 5% of global supplies. Overall, Chile produces a third of the world’s copper, so if the copper price declines the Chilean economy.
a hit, fortunately for them, we know, because we do our commodity charts every week. Copper is booming has been for some time. So that’s all I’ve got on the background of the business. Before I get into the numbers do you have any thoughts or comments on any of that, Tony?
TK: I don’t. Pretty amazing the level of renewables they have. I, I guess my question around that would be what do people pay for electricity in Chile versus the other comparable countries, whether they’re happy to pay more for renewables or whether they’ve actually managed to get renewable electricity down the same price as fossil fuel powered.
But great [00:26:00] great result.
Cameron: Let me find out the answer for you.
Electricity prices in Chile and Australia differ significantly influenced by factors like energy mix, infrastructure, and market dynamics, residential rates as of September, 2024, residential electricity prices in Chile averaged USD 18.30 cents per kilowatts in Australia. They range from 24 to 43 cents per kilowatts, depending on region.
I assume that that’s in USD.
TK: Yeah, Chile’s cheaper and it’s a higher proportion of renewables. Do you know if there’s government support in that pricing camp at all? As in is it a policy of the government to support renewables?
Cameron: Oh, it’s not just, well, I dunno about supporting them. I mean, it’s, it’s enforcing a move to renewables. I think they, I. Had a, a countrywide goal to [00:27:00] be 70% renewables by 2050. And then recently they dropped that down to 2030, which I believe they’re on track to do. sure if they’re supporting it economically, but I know that they’re, it’s a big driver across the country that, there’s being, you know, the electricity companies there are being forced to abide by the moves towards majority renewables. So just back on the pricing thing, that Australian price is a round about. 25 cents per kilowatt hour USD versus 18.30 cents, in Chile, so substantially cheaper Chile than it is in Australia.
TK: Yeah, that’s amazing. Given their renewables. Although, and I’m not, again, not familiar with Chile, it’s smaller than Australia, so it might be cheaper for the grid to [00:28:00] be for the transmission grid to be operated. But who knows? But well done. It’s a good, good number anyway, I.
Cameron: It is also a bonkers You know, it runs right down the left hand, the sort of west coast of South America all the way down. It’s like the, I think, the southern most country in the world and also the and skinniest country in the world too. So, yeah, different, different situation in terms of the grid, but also very mountainous.
So probably a lot of challenges that perspective in Australia. But anyway,
TK: Yeah.
Cameron: hard to compare, but that’s a good job. So anyway, just going through the numbers, they’re. Market cap is around about five and a half billion USD. the earnings per share for the last 12 months is about 14 15 cents.
The forecast for the next year is about 38 cents, so that’s [00:29:00] pretty good. They, they do have some challenges I didn’t mention before, so they, they took a big hit. Really, they’ve taken a couple of big hits recently to their profitability as a result of some particularly bad weather events that they had in Chile.
And then also they had some exchange rate hits that they have a lot of debt in US dollars and the exchange rate hit took a toll on them. And, you know, a lot of the issues with commodity prizes and trade wars and all of that sort of stuff is a challenge for them. But generally the business seems to be doing quite well.
If you, if you factor out some of those one-off things that have happened in the last year, I think they had, there was like a 77 or 80% year on year profit drop, net profit drop. But if you factor out sort of the one-off events, the business is actually doing quite well. Looking at [00:30:00] the QAV scoring side of things they obviously do have a positive uptrend.
price to operate in cash flow is quite low. It’s about a three. So we score them for that. In Stockopedia, Their stock rank is 93, which is pretty good. They get a value score of 82, momentum score of 98, is interesting for a QAV stock, quality score is quite low. It’s only 46. They get an. F score of five out of nine and the Z two score is actually. around the, the edge of the distress zone, we see with a of our companies where we run them through stock edia, which I’ve learn to, not ignore, but we don’t take as seriously as it looks on the chart because it doesn’t really have a lot to do with the financial health of the business.
So they get a [00:31:00] one for stock rank on our. Checklist, they get a one for their F score. Their price is not below our IV number one or our IV number two. IV one we have at 76 cents. IV number two is at $3 66. Their current price is.
Is $3 94, they don’t fall below any of those, so we can’t score them for that. they don’t score for, IV two, being less than twice the share price either. Equity per share is $3 75. Book plus 30 is $4 88. So we are not scoring them on the price being less than Book plus 30.
We don’t have a score in our US checklist for ownership because it’s hard to get that as a downloadable thing out of [00:32:00] Stockopedia. But as I said before, this is owned by, the parent company. I think 65% of it or something is owned by the parent company.
not really an owner founder though. Tony, how would you treat something like that if you had to score it?
TK: The same way you have Cam, I agree with you. It’s something that, that there wouldn’t be an owner, founder. You can see the shareholdings in opia if you call it up, but you know, they’re all the mutual institutional funds you’d expect. Even back in Italy, I’d be surprised if there’s known a founder, ’cause the company was founded too long ago. So Yes, I’d I’d say it’s zero on our checklist.
Cameron: Yeah, you don’t, you don’t treat a parent company or another corporate entity owning a large chunk of it as an owner, founder.
TK: No, no, only the founders of people who, who know the industry really well. Not necessarily corporations who might have, you know all the kinds of corporate baggage that comes with governance and committees and all that kind of stuff, so, no.
Cameron: Yeah. Alright, [00:33:00] so they get nine OUTTA 13. For us, it’s a quality score of 69% and a QAV score of 0.2. So I added them to, oh, by the way, the average daily trade is about 2.7 million. So big enough for most QAV investors. And that’s it. That’s ENIC in Chile. Yeah, I found it interesting to learn more about the renewable stuff in Chile.
They’re, they’re killing it.
TK: Well done Cam. That was really interesting. Yeah, and, and again, another unusual company that I wouldn’t have come across except for the process, which is great.
Cameron: Yeah. And like, again, not a, not a particularly sexy business, electricity provision, but necessary and the world needs more electricity. And I assume, you know, as we know Chile, they’re expecting 41% [00:34:00] increase in demand in the next 10 years. So. There’s a lot of upside for these guys. A lot of challenges as well.
They do talk in their latest annual report about some of the challenges with just scaling up electricity generation and distribution. But well run business, so hopefully they’ll figure it out. Well, that is it for me this week. final thoughts for QAV America before we go?
TK: I don’t, but I could probably use some bit of a power boost here talking of electricity with the bad wifi I’ve got. So apologies to people for the quality of my end and video this week. Maximize the bandwidth youth, but I’m taking a, a break in a place called Bateman’s Bay in Australia which has been lovely, but I’m back on deck for a proper recording next week.
So apologies if anyone’s had trouble [00:35:00] with this with They won’t. I’ll fix it up in editing. It’ll sound perfect. No one will know Tony. So you enjoy your golf. Don’t worry about it.
Thank you. Thank you.
Cameron: Oh, and I put a shout, just a shout out for anyone in the, or, anyone anywhere in the world listening to this. I did put a shout out on the value investing subreddit the other day, but the announcement of the retirement of Warren Buffett. In the last week or so, thought it’d be a great opportunity for value investors around the world to talk about.
You know, the, the, what we’ve learned from Warren how he and Charlie have informed your value investing. you disagree on some of the things that he said or is does, or preaches. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that. But we wanna advise you to be a guest to come on the show and talk about Warren Buffet.
And talk about, I know he is, had a huge impact on Tony’s investing and via Tony a huge impact on my investing. [00:36:00] Sort of a, as we talked about last week, you know, one of the, the Tony’s mentors and Tony’s one of my mentors, so he’s had a big influence. We know on of thousands, hundreds of thousands of investors around the world.
if you’d like to come on the show and talk about Warren, good, bad, or indifferent. Shoot me an email cr@qavamerica.com and offer yourself up. We’re gonna have some guests come on over coming weeks to share their thoughts on Warren Buffett, and you’re invited to come on and share yours as well. I’d love to hear from you.
Well, with that, Tony I know you’ve got a thing that you gotta get out for, so I’ll let you go. Enjoy the rest of your golf and I’ll talk to you next week.
TK: have a good week and happy Nasdaq. Happy NYSE. Everybody will talk to you next week.
Cameron: Thanks, Tony. Happy tariffs.
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