Cameron: [00:00:00] Welcome back to QAV America, Tony, two Australian value investors talking about investing in the US market. That’s just, I put, put that in there for new listeners. How are you, Tony?

Tony Kynaston: I am well, thanks, cam. Yep. Just finished the hour and a half on stocks in Australia, so it’s fun to see you

Cameron: I.

Tony Kynaston: Good to see you

say

Cameron: Well, um, I don’t really have any sort of broad news, as we say every week on this show. It’s in such a state of flux. The US market with tariffs are on, tariffs are off, tariffs are up, tariffs are down. It’s, you know, it, it’s really hard to make any sense of it. And so we don’t try, I mean, we just. Um, for people that are new to QAV, uh, what we try and do is look at the fundamentals of individual businesses and try and find [00:01:00] something that is a bargain.

Something that we think is generating good cash flow, but we can buy it at a bargain for one reason or another. And, uh, then on this show, I pick one each week. That is on our US buy list and I talk about it for half an hour, uh, and why it’s on our buy list. And this week I’m doing a company called Sasol, which kind of sound we were just talking about, the Godfather.

Um. On our Australian show, and it’s, there’s a character in, in one of the Godfather films, Joey Saso, I can’t remember.

Tony Kynaston: part three.

Cameron: Is it right? Joey Saso.

Okay.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. Sza.

Cameron: Oh yeah. Joey Saso. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, well he’s, he plays Vincenzo Corleone, [00:02:00] his Sonny Zi.

Tony Kynaston: kills Joey

Cameron: S Joey Sasa. That’s right. Yeah. He’s saying something bad about Michael Corleone.

Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that uh, yeah. I can’t remember the name of the actor who played him. Anyway, not to get distracted. Sasol. SSL is the ticket code for Sasol. And you were on an Australian show. You were talking about anti woke. ETFs and I said, well, I’m gonna talk about an anti work company in some ways. This, this company is, uh, what a story they’ve got behind them.

Uh, they’re a South African coal liquification. Company and they do other things, but that’s mainly, uh, their background and, and where most of their revenue still comes from. Today, I knew absolutely nothing about coal liquification. Don’t think I’d ever, ever even heard of coal liquification before I started this, but now I [00:03:00] know a little bit about it so I can talk to you about it.

But this company, um, was started in the fifties in apartheid South Africa, mostly as a way of securing their energy independence. Because they don’t have a lot of oil in South Africa and they were under economic sanctions and so they were getting, finding it difficult to buy oil. So they needed to figure out how to take what they did have, which was coal, and turn it into petrol and chemicals that could be used for everything that they needed petroleum for.

And so Sasol was founded in a dusty little town called Sasol Berg, which was created in 1954 to provide housing and facilities for Sasol employees. The, um, [00:04:00] there’s a couple of different ways to take coal and turn it into liquid petroleum, essentially synthetic gas or synthetic petroleum. And it was first discovered by German chemists in the early 19 hundreds, and the, there’s, the main way of doing it is called the Fisher TRO process.

After the names of the. Two, uh, Germans who developed it Fisher, who was not a Nazi at the time, but became one later, uh, trs, got the hell out of there in the late twenties and ended up in the US But uh, Fisher stuck around. Basically you can take coal and force it to give up its liquid hydrocarbons. Uh, one way is to just make it really, really hot, and the other way is to pulverize it [00:05:00] and then put it under huge amounts of pressure.

So without going into too much detail, the first way is what’s called the indirect route, which is the fisure tr method. You gasify the coal. Creating synthetic gas or sin gas as it’s known, you basically heat it up to 1300 degrees Celsius or 2,370 degrees Fahrenheit, which is pretty hot. You ever stood inside, uh, next to a furnace like that?

Tony Kynaston: Ooh, good question. Uh, no. I’ve done firefighter training when I was working at Shell. It gets pretty hot doing that, so, but not a furnace hot.

Cameron: I have stood near furnaces when, in my Microsoft days, um, uh, in Victoria we had some coal industry clients. I can’t remember who they were now, but I remember doing tour of some of their facilities. [00:06:00] And I remember being next to a furnace. Actually, no, this wasn’t coal, it was steel. They were melting steel, which is about the same temperature that it takes to gasify coal.

And I remember, you know, being in the room next to the room where the furnace was on, and it was insane. It was like standing close to a sun. It was. The Oh hot. It was absolutely bonkers. Terrific experience. Highly recommend it. If you ever get the chance, stand, stand next to a feel steel furnace. Anyway, so they heat it up, then they clean it, run it over an iron or cobalt based catalyst that stitches the molecules back together in a way that you end up with wax, just these hydrocarbons that are a wax, and then you crack the wax and you end up with diesel and naptha.

And this was a big deal in Nazi Germany. Uh, believe it or not, Hitler struggled to get his hands on [00:07:00] enough oil during World War ii, so not a lot of oil wells in Germany. Uh, so it became a huge part of German industry during World War ii, CTL as it’s known, coal to liquid provided 92% of Germany’s air fuel and over 50% of its petroleum supply in the 1940s.

Uh, but then when they lost the war, it sort of got a bad rap because some Germans believed that they lost the war because they couldn’t produce enough. Uh, fuel out of that had nothing to do with the fact that the Americans and the, uh, Russians joined up and they just got summarily defeated and Stalin crushed them at Stalingrad.

But that’s another story. Then the other way of doing it is called, uh, hydrogenation, the direct route it’s called where you pulverize the coal. Mix it with heavy oil and [00:08:00] hydrogen under 300 bar for people like me who dunno what that means. Um, I know you’ve been to at least 300 bars in your time, but that’s a different story.

One bar equals atmospheric pressure. So 300 bars is 300 times 14.5 PSI. So 4,350 PSI comparable to the water jet cutting pressure used on stone basically. Then you strip out the sulfur and the oxygen, it’s quicker, but it’s a pretty harsh way of doing it. So you do this and it’s actually very expensive to do this.

The output cost sits north of $50 US per barrel. Um, but you.

You have to do it. If you don’t have access to liquid oil, if you can’t get it outta the ground, you just have to suck it up, which was a apartheid South Africa apparently.

Tony Kynaston: I was gonna ask that because, um, [00:09:00] been some coal seed gas companies in Australia over the years and they’ve never off. And I think one of the reasons was it was just uneconomical. The, the process sounds fine and we have lots of coal, but, uh, never survive. But I guess if you are in apartheid South Africa, you need to do it

Cameron: Or Nazi Germany. Yeah,

Tony Kynaston: Nazi Germany.

Cameron: and well,

Tony Kynaston: now then if it’s, uh, South Africa

Cameron: because it’s huge. Uh, it’s, it’s huge. Um, it’s turned into a absolutely mega company that’s produces a ton of this sort of stuff and I don’t know, they must be able to justify it, uh, economically. So they produce roughly two barrels of liquid for every ton of coal plus buckets of CO2 sulfur and ash. Which is where the, uh, anti woke side of this comes in.

Um, [00:10:00] so Sal’s main operation is called the Secunda Complex, and it produces roughly 150,000 barrels per day. Which is a lot of, uh, oil, I guess. The, uh, China also does a lot of CTL, um, on a much smaller volume per facility.

Tony Kynaston: you, say 150 barrels a day?

Cameron: 150,000 barrels a day, 150 KBBL per day.

Tony Kynaston: I.

Cameron: China producers, uh, a little bit outta CTL two. There was a lot of CTL operations, uh, running in the us, but they kind of got replaced with shale,

I think. Um, which is, as we know, not as economical as [00:11:00] sucking oil outta the ground either, but is, uh, lower

Tony Kynaston: Yeah.

Cameron: than.

Pulling up coal and crushing it apparently, or cooking it. So, uh, yes. It works. These guys are the kings at it, Sasol, but really bad for the environment. So what else can I tell you? The founder Ion, uh, started the company in 1955, was sort of the plan of the Apartheid government then, and they’ve been producing it ever since.

They, because of of decades of sanctions, they had to become really, really good at it. So they developed this really obsessive engineering culture that still runs the Secunda complex, the world’s single biggest CO2 emitter. And they’re trying to do [00:12:00] something about that, um, for a variety of reasons. I’m sure.

It’s all just out of, uh, care for the earth. And also South African government is putting in really big taxes on carbon emissions. Uh, that might have something to do with it as well on the, on the ESG part of their website. I couldn’t find it anywhere where they admitted to being the world’s single largest.

CO2 emitter. But they did say that they’ve, their goal is to be, uh, net neutral by 2050 or net, sorry, net zero by 2050. I guess it’s the same thing, net net neutral. Uh, but their goal, they’ve recently increased the 2030 goal from a 10% reduction of 2017 levels to 30% reduction of 2017 levels. Uh, ask me how they’re doing.

Tony Kynaston: Are they, how are they tracking towards their, [00:13:00] uh, you call it, their, um, audacious, big, hairy, audacious goal.

Cameron: Let’s say it’s a, it’s a, it’s a slow burn. Slow.

Tony Kynaston: I should throw it in the kiln man.

Cameron: They should, yeah. They got a lot, a lot of burning capability. I dunno why they’re not burning. They’re at about 5% reduction

after eight years. They’ve got five years left, um, to get the other 25%. So who knows, maybe they’re just, maybe they’re gonna cram it all in in the last six months, like

Tony Kynaston: they’ve spent five years building things that will help them in the next five years. Who knows?

Cameron: would be, maybe they’re just hoping AI will solve it for ’em. Who knows? Um. So they listed in Jonas Burg in 1979. Then on the New York Stock Exchange in 2003, spent the 1980s selling fuel to sanction, hit markets that couldn’t buy it from anywhere else, [00:14:00] and then they started exporting their knowledge to Qatar, uh, in the 1990s.

They’ve had a lot of problems though. Um. They’ve got a massive project in Louisiana called the Lake Charles Chemical Project, which ran, you know, a little bit over budget. Um, you know, four bill, what’s $4 billion between friends over budget? Tony, I think it was an $11 billion project, which is now looking at a $15 billion project.

I like on their, on their website, it said it’s gonna cost somewhere between 11 and $15 billion. You know, give or take, give or take something around that. That’s a, uh, an ethane cracker operation. Eh, you know, it’s down in the south and the us there’s a lot of crackers down there in the south. But this is a particular kind of cracker.

This is an

ethane.

Tony Kynaston: [00:15:00] oh

Cameron: Sorry, I had to,

had to get that one in.

Tony Kynaston: to, the Andy woke show.

Cameron: It’s the anti work show. I can say whatever I want.

Tony Kynaston: what? We can

Cameron: It’s a,

Tony Kynaston: People

Cameron: I can, yeah. No, it’s an ethane cracker. Um, it’s a giant industrial furnace that rips hydrogen atoms off of ethane to make ethylene. So it takes C two H six, turns it into C two H four, which is the starting block for most plastics apparently.

So they ran over budget on that. They ended, ended up having to do a 50% JV with an American multinational chemical company called Lion de Bazel. Uh, they’ve had lots of other problems as well. Um, like just a lot of explosions. In the last 21 years, they have had 23 [00:16:00] onsite deaths at the Secunda plant. Which is a, a fatal accident rate or an FAR of roughly 2.2 deaths per hundred million work hours, which is roughly two to three times the international oil and gas industry benchmark.

So not doing too well despite all of their engineering expertise on stopping their workers from dying. And that led to their CEO getting replaced in 2003. Uh, after yet another op, uh, 2021 was an Anna’s hoist. They had three separate mine side incidents. And, um, the outgoing CEO though had a great name.

His name was Fleetwood Gobbler, which I gotta tell you, [00:17:00] I. Out of all of the names I’ve heard in my entire life, I think Fleetwood Gobbler is up there. It sounds like a Chevy Chase name from a Fletch film. Fleetwood Grabler. What a to. Congratulations to Mr. Grabler if he’s out there listening in. He was replaced by Simon Balli, who’s a process safety engineer.

So he’s been the CEO since, uh, April, 2024, so they’re trying to turn that around. But yeah, they’ve had a lot of problems over the last 20 years with this sort of stuff. Um, and, you know, you know, delivering this ethane cracker project, et cetera, et cetera, how the money is sliced. Today, they have about four operating buckets, energy.

Which is colder. Liquids plus gas and marketing is about 57%. [00:18:00] Chemicals. Africa, 37% chemicals, America 6% and chemicals Eurasia 3%. Um, they’ve got, um. Also a renewables thing. They’re trying to do renewables. They’ve got a green hydrogen thing like Australia’s, uh, Mr. Forest, Andrew Forest. So they’re, they’re playing around the edges with all of that kind of stuff.

But it’s mostly steel, coal, uh, uh, liquid, um, operations.

Tony Kynaston: I did know

Cameron: But.

Tony Kynaston: a large part of the company’s called Dino Nobel. And so two questions for you on that. Is that. Does that trace itself back to Alfred Nobel? ’cause he, I think was South African and uh, Donna Nobel in Australia is an explosives company. It was owned by a chemical company in Australia called Oracle.

I think it may have just been sold, but there is an Australian company called Dino Nobel as well. So I wondered what the link was there. If you’ve come across [00:19:00] it.

Cameron: Dino, no Bell. Um. No, I didn’t come across that in my notes. Where did you see that? On their, uh, website.

Tony Kynaston: Oh, their business breakdown. I think it’s, I think it may be the name of the chemicals business.

Cameron: Oh, okay. If I look up Wikipedia for diner, Nobel just talks about the explosives company founded in Sweden by Alfred Nobel

headquarters, Brisbane, Australia, and Cottonwoods. Hi, Cottonwood Heights, Utah.

Tony Kynaston: Right.

there is. If you look up the Sasol website, one of their businesses called Sasol, Dino Nobel.

Cameron: Oh, okay. No dunno. It didn’t come up in my notes. I’ve probably been to Cottonwood, Utah. It’s uh, in Salt Lake County. Spent quite a lot of time in Salt Lake. I anyw who [00:20:00] back to my notes. Um. Where am I here? So. Very low. So I, I should have said at the beginning, so this is another one of these companies on the New York Stock Exchange that doesn’t report in USD, it reports in z ar, the RAND in South Africa.

But I did all the conversions and, and interestingly the scoring didn’t change for anything once I converted it. Um, our IV scores, um, but. It still prints a lot of cash. It’s the main thing I like about this. It doesn’t score very well, uh, in Wikipedia for stock rank or quality rank, but it throws off a ton of cash.

So it’s got a very low prop calf. Um, I think single digits. We’ll get into the actual figures later on, but it’s, [00:21:00] it’s an ESG nightmare. But it’s generating a lot of cash. And for new listeners, do you want to explain the QAV policy on ESG investing?

Tony Kynaston: Yeah. Well, so I said this on the Australian show when we

Cameron: I.

Tony Kynaston: about

Um, we just produced by. List of companies that score well and it’s then to the individual investor whether they want to buy that company or look on. And we don’t take a position on whether it’s a good company or a bad company or whether investing in this company is good or bad.

It’s up to the individual investor. And that’s, that’s the plus I think for QAV. ’cause you’re managing it yourself. Because we spoke about in the Australian show, there are ETFs out there, which are. calling themselves ESG ETFs. Oftentimes they’re just the index with a few stocks removed, and they charge you a lot of fees for that, for that pleasure.

So you’re getting index like performance at best and paying more than the next fund. [00:22:00] whereas if you do it yourself, you can decide whether you wanted to, you might like all these kinds of companies and you might put together a, of value stocks that, um. our anti work. That’s fine.

It’s up to you. We don’t take a position, we just say, here are the numbers, and, uh, create a buy list. And then it’s up to you whether you wanna buy this stock or an ESG stock, or you know, stocks which are in the defense industry or any particular filter you wanna place on it yourself. We don’t have a position.

We just say, here are the stocks that score. Well go ahead and put the portfolio together yourself.

Cameron: But what about your position on ESGS? Uh, ba Well, yeah. Buying ESG stocks or buying oil, let’s say that, or mining stocks.

Tony Kynaston: so we’ve had this discussion before as

Cameron: I.

Tony Kynaston: is that, um, I would buy them, I don’t know much about Sasol, so I’d have to have a good look at it, but I would buy oil stocks or, or coal stocks on the ASX because I think, uh, you can’t just turn the lights off overnight [00:23:00] and, uh. replacements for, um, energy production just aren’t there yet. Um, might be down the track, but at the moment there’s a gotta be a transition path between, know, keeping industry going, keeping ourselves warm and well lit and fed through to the day when we can have, um, completely renewable Angie sources. But we’re not there yet. So I’m, I’m happy buying these stocks myself personally.

Cameron: And the other other argument I’ve heard you make over the years, correct me if I’m wrong, but is that when we buy shares on the market, these come. Companies don’t get, unless we’re buying a, a new listing or a new issue or something like that, they’re not getting our money.

They don’t get the money. So we’re not funding their operation.

We’re not perpetuating their operation. We’re, we’re an individual buying share, a share off another individual or off another fund or whatever it is. So we’re not, um, encouraging the business. We’re not financially supporting [00:24:00] the business. We’re just buying a share.

Tony Kynaston: And possibly buying it from someone who’s selling because they’re, uh, want the ESG issue in their

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynaston: yeah, we do profit from them doing well, but we don’t provide them with any capital to, to grow their business.

Cameron: Yeah. So, uh, back to this company, um, they’re a, they’re an ESG nightmare, so it’s one of the reasons why I think they’re cheap. They’ve also, they’re carrying a lot of debt, but they. They’re sitting on 1.9 billion tons of coal reserves that they have access to in South Africa apparently, which will keep ’em going for a while.

They’ve got a 70 year learning curve. In this whole coal to liquid process, that, uh, gives them a bit of a competitive advantage, engineering wise, over competitors. Not that they have many competitors in the CTL space outside of China, [00:25:00] and they sell a lot of, uh. Petroleum synth gas synth petroleum to South Africa.

I think they cover about 20% of South Africa’s demand. Uh, they’re protected by a regulated price, uh, in South Africa as well. Which is interesting. I wish we were protected by that here. The petrol price here has been insane. It went up 25% in a week. I filled up my car one week. It was like a buck 75 or something elite.

I filled up the next week. It was like $2 25 a lead. I was like, what the hell? How? How’s that possible

anyway?

Tony Kynaston: It, and the oil price hasn’t gone up that much all that quickly.

Cameron: what else? So, yes, so they got a lot of debt, 120 billion Z ar net debt, which is, uh, divide that by. [00:26:00] 20 to turn that into USD. So about what, 6 billion us? Is that right? 10. Well, by 10 it’d be 12 or 20 Be six. That’s 6 billion. Yeah. Um, and a lot of a, a lot of that’s coming from the Lake Charles. Kerfuffle, they, they haven’t issued a dividend since 2020.

Their CO2 footprint is bigger than Portugal’s and the RAND has got some FX issues, a as any, my old IT guy used to be in South Africa and they had like constant. Grid blackouts all of the time. He’d be offline for a day here or a day there, or hours here. So the sort of problems in South Africa with supplying power, and I guess that impacts these guys in some way, shape or form.

But, oh, the other thing is, um, the South [00:27:00] African government are really kicking up the penalties for being a carbon emitter and the next round kicks in next year. 2026. So these guys are gonna have to start paying, uh, bigger hike or buying more trees, something like that to offset. Um, but it’s gonna, it’s gonna be a hit to their numbers, but not a huge hit.

I, I got some notes on that a bit later on, but. From the numbers, uh, the key numbers for us price to operating cash flow is about 1.4 times. So very low. They’ve got bus, they’ve got issues, um, and they, they look dirty on paper, but, uh, very, very cheap. From a Pr/OpCaf perspective, their F score is six outta nine, not as good as the.

EDU you just talked about, but pretty [00:28:00] solid from an FS score perspective. And the price to book is 0.39 times. So very, very low. Uh, what else have I got for you? Um. You know, there, there’s like, there’s a lot of things we could look at. Um, if they pay off their debt, if there’s a rebound in polyethylene ammonia spreads, it could lift their earnings outta Lake Charles.

There’s, there’s, you know, if they, if they come up with a better CO2 abatement plan, they could unlock some ESG investment. There’s a lot of things like that, but that’s all. Prediction and forecasting that are really of no use to us, but some of my analysis uncovered potential upsides in those things. Red flags are really higher.

CO2 taxes or stricter South African emission laws, which are gonna force [00:29:00] them to continue to spend money on heading towards net zero or getting down to that 30%. Uh, level that I mentioned earlier on, or more blowups at secunda, or more problems with Lake Charles that could nuke their cash flow. But the punchline is really that there are.

An ugly duckling refinery. I think, you know, um, sort of a classic value buy that we’ve seen a lot over the years that we’ve been doing the Australian show, just out of favor with a lot of funds because it’s such an ugly duckling. You know, it’s, uh, a, not a woke by, uh, because of all of the CO2 that they push out.

The apartheid thing is probably in their past. Uh, just in terms of what we scored it on Price, uh, less than or equal to IV one. Yes. Price [00:30:00] less than IV two. Yes. Price Less than book? Yes. Less than book plus 30. Yes. Price to operating cash flow Less than seven. Yes. Petrovsky score better than 4.5. Yes. Fails on quality Rank fails on stock Rank.

Fails on book value growth being positive, fails on growth over PE greater than 1.5. Does have a three point uptrend, has a new three point uptrend, but fails on yield being greater than bank debt and, uh, passes for Ivy two being greater than twice the current share price. So. The QAV score is 0.51, which is a pretty good QAV score.

Yeah.

But you know, it’s a, it’s sort of a hold your nose, uh, buy, I think if you were gonna buy it, it’s, it’s not very ESG [00:31:00] friendly and, um, but it’s the reality, as you said before, south Africans. Need to get their power generation from somewhere. They’ve got enough problems as it is. So, uh, these guys are providing a lot of that, and they are working hard too.

It seems. 5%, maybe it’s not, it’s not evident in their results, but I believe everything they say on their website, Tony, they are trying super, super hard. They’re, they’re big believers.

Tony Kynaston: like they do the old things really well and the new things not so much with changing to ESG and building a plant in the US I.

Cameron: Well, you know, they, yeah, they are. I dunno how environmentally good or bad, Ethan cracking is really, I imagine if you’re having to, you know, post process things that intensively is probably a lot of flow on [00:32:00] negative environmental impacts from that.

Tony Kynaston: which is a, cleaner fuel than oil. So, yeah.

Cameron: but I dunno, in, in terms of, you know, ripping the hydrogen atoms off the ethane, um, you know what, what the trickle down carbon emission impact of that is, dunno.

Tony Kynaston: Me neither. Um, but the last point too, I think we should say is it’s a commodity stock, obviously.

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

Tony Kynaston: not sure whether it was, we should track it as a coal stock or an oil stock, but they’re both buys at the moment, so it doesn’t matter.

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah, they are. They’re both buys and these guys I guess, fit into their somewhere. I don’t think we have a commodity for synth gas or liquified coal, but, uh, I guess it ties into those pricing somewhere. I, I mean, I dunno if we track the commodity price in South Africa and if we would have to do that for these guys, [00:33:00] singers.

There’s some sort of regulatory price, uh, controls around it there. Anyway, uh, in terms of it on our checklist, you know, I think it’s, uh, it makes sense to look at as a value investment. Again, it’s sort of the classic ugly duckling. Out of favor, but, uh, and has a lot of, lot of operational problems, but is still sort of, has a monopoly on what it does, has a moat and is generating a ton of cash and is very, very cheap.

Is my summary.

Tony Kynaston: We’ve done a number of overseas pulled porks. I’m guessing this is an A DR as well on the New York Stock Exchange, and I’m

Cameron: I think so.

Tony Kynaston: into some of these

being value stocks as well, if that stocks some

in the US from buying them. Interesting to get

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynaston: that from the US what their experiences with ADRs.

Cameron: Right. Yeah, we went through that a few episodes ago, didn’t [00:34:00] we? The, just the sort of reporting complexities, the paperwork complexities with ADR for American investors.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. All right. I’ll try and. We’ll see if I can get someone to come on and talk to us about that in a future episode. But you’re right.

That’s probably one of the factors with these as well.

know, when I’m going through our buy list each week looking for companies to buy, I’m, I’m looking for companies that are different to the ones that we’ve talked about in the past, and just a lot of them tend to be foreign based. Companies, it seems.

I don’t go deliberately looking for them, but yeah, they just do the, I go, oh, okay. That’s a bit different. Where is it? Oh, South Africa. Okay, great.

Tony Kynaston: Yeah, no, I get that.

Cameron: All right, well that’s your, uh, stock tip to look at this week. If you’re looking for a value stock in the US market, take a look at Sasol, but do your own research.

Tony Kynaston: Absolutely. All right. Thanks Cam. Thanks for [00:35:00] the pulled port.

Cameron: Thank you, Tony,

Tony Kynaston: Happy.

Cameron: too late.

Bernard: Disclaimer: This podcast is an information provider and in giving you product information we are not making any suggestion or recommendation about a particular product. The information has been prepared without taking into account your individual investment objectives, financial circumstances or needs. Before you decide whether or not to acquire a particular financial product you should assess whether it is appropriate for you in the light of your own personal circumstances, having regard to your own objectives, financial situation and needs. You may wish to obtain financial advice from a suitably qualified adviser before making any decision to acquire a financial product. Please note that all information about performance returns is historical. Past performance should not be relied upon as an indicator of future [00:36:00] performance; unit prices and the value of your investment may fall as well as rise. The results are general advice only and not personal product advice. Transparency is important to us. We will always be very open and honest about the stocks we own. We will also always give our audience advance notice when we intend to buy or sell a stock that we are going to talk about on the podcast. This is so we can never be accused of pumping a stock to our own advantage. If we talk about a stock we currently own, we will make it known that we own it.